Introducing new chickens to an already established flock can be stressful for both the birds and you. The new flock will need to establish a new pecking order, which can be brutal for everyone involved.
Through much experimentation over the years, we’ve developed a great strategy for new flock initiation. This strategy allows the birds to get used to each other gradually, so there’s less stress.
There are plenty of good ways to go about introducing new chickens to an established flock. But when we’re introducing chicks to the flock (or pullets) this is the method that works for us every time.
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Introducing New Chickens to the Flock
Step One: Quarantine
All new flock members must be quarantined before being added to an established flock.
Quarantine is done to ensure that the new flock members aren’t bringing in diseases or pests to your flock. They’ll need to be examined daily to look for signs of mites and lice, as well as common poultry diseases. Quarantine should last for at least 30 days.
To quarantine new chickens, keep them in an isolated area where they aren’t sharing space with the existing flock. A dog cage inside the house or garage will work well. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly in between handling new birds and the rest of the flock.
After the quarantine period is up and you’re absolutely sure your new flock members aren’t introducing any diseases or pests, you can begin introducing new chickens to the rest of the flock.
Step Two: Cage Inside of Coop
Place the new birds in a large animal cage inside the coop. If you don’t have a cage, fence off a corner of the coop for the new birds, making sure they’re protected on all sides.
Placing the cage in a corner is a good idea, so only two walls of the cage are exposed to the rest of the flock.
The existing flock members will come to investigate the new additions, but won’t be able to get too close. This will allow everyone to adjust to each other gradually.
Keep the new flock members inside the cage for the first 3-7 days. If it seems everyone is getting along well after three days, move onto step three. If there is still a lot of pecking going on through the cage, keep them in there for a few more days.
Step Three: Free-Range Time
When step two is complete and the birds are all comfortable with each others presence, it’s time to let them free range together.
Let the old birds and the new birds out to free-range together for at least a few hours a day. This will give them time to interact with each other, and space to get some privacy if they need it. If you don’t free range your flock, let the new chickens out of their cage and into the run for a few hours a day.
If the new birds don’t rush out of the cage the first time you open it, give them time. They may be frightened of the newfound space, but they will come out when they’re ready.
When the birds aren’t free-ranging together, keep the new flock members in the cage, including at night.
Continue letting the flock free-range together for a week or so. Timing is different for everyone, so when all seems well, move onto step four.
Step Four: Cage Door Open
After a week of free-ranging together, open the door to the cage and leave it open. The new flock members can come and go from the cage as they please. It will still be a safe place for them to go when they need, and they’ll likely still sleep there at night. The entire flock can now mingle together whenever they please. Continue letting them out to free range together.
Don’t be alarmed if your new chickens still get pecked at once in awhile. This is totally natural and necessary as the flock adjusts.
Remember that chickens aren’t the same as people, and their social order works in a different way. This method is meant to make this transition easier for everyone, but there will still be some adjustment before the birds are all comfortable with each other.
Tips for Introducing New Chickens into the Flock
- Add a second roost in the coop if necessary. The new birds may get pecked when they start trying to roost. Give some extra room so everyone can roost comfortably.
- Provide places for new flock members to get some privacy. Placing roosting bars high up in the run can allow a safe place. Another option is to leave covered spaces inside the coop for birds to retreat to if they’re getting picked on.
- Keep an eye on the new birds and look for signs that they’re getting pecked too much. Missing feathers, wounds, or bleeding are a bad sign and those birds will need a little extra time and TLC to get established.
- If you’re introducing chicks to a flock of adult birds, wait until they’re at least six weeks old, but eight weeks is better. The chicks can get killed by the bigger birds if they aren’t big enough to defend themselves.
Denise louhy says
Your guide to introducing new members is great. Some of us don’t have a large enough coop to do that. Nor is it large enough to fence off an area. They are getting used to each other fenced in a different run and coop. The older ones free range and come over to the run to check them out. Hopefully this will be good enough
Meredith Skyer says
I’m sure it will! The guide needs to be adjusted according to different needs. I hope it works for you!
mandy says
Nothing seems to be working so easily for me. My 2 new hens are fighting with the old ones and drawing blood. I have kept them separate now for two weeks and every time I allow them to free range, my old birds are injured.
Meredith Skyer says
I’m sorry you’re going through this! I would keep trying, there WILL be some fighting with integration, it’s unavoidable. The hens need to establish a new pecking order, and it can be brutal but it’s going to happen. Give the birds plenty of space and integrate slowly. Have you tried keeping the new birds in a cage next to the old birds? That way they can all get used to each other and stay safe.
Becky says
Hi. We have ducks and chickens. Including a rooster. I’m not sure what kind of chickens they all are. But the female ducks lay one egg a day. The hens lay an egg a day, we got fake eggs for the hens’ nests as my husband told me they don’t like it when they take all their eggs. We had two female ducks, but we think the rooster killed one of the females. We found a bunch of her feathers in the yard and he had been chasing her around for some reason, and the drake who is very young still didn’t do much but quack loudly. Will the rooster go after the other ducks? He didn’t seem to chase the others, only that one. Next question. Two of the laying hens of the three have stopped laying and are sitting on the fake eggs. Should we t take the fake eggs out again so they’ll start laying again? They look like bantam chickens but I’m not sure, and the one that keeps laying is all black, I don’t know what she is. The rooster is red with green iridescent feathers, very pretty tail. But I’m not sure what he is. We also got some new baby chicks that are almost two weeks old now, they’re Rhode Island Reds, and two of them are black that start with an L. I’m sorry I can’t remember what my husband said he bought. But we live in Northern California, the chicks are in our house right now, when should we start taking them outside. I’m sorry I have so many questions I’m slamming you with. I’ve never had birds before.
Meredith says
Hi there, it’s possible the rooster killed the duck but it’s not very likely. If the duck just disappeared and only some feathers were left it’s more likely that a predator came and took her, like a coyote or a fox. If the rooster had killed her, you would have found her body. For your next question, if your hens are broody, meaning they want to sit on eggs and hatch them, unfortunately taking away the fake eggs won’t stop it. They’ll continue sitting on an empty nest. Usually you just have to wait until they decide to stop being broody and they’ll lay eggs again on their own. The chicks can go outside anytime after they’re fully feathered, as long as the night temperature outside doesn’t fall below freezing, and they have a safe, non-drafty coop to live in. Make sure you introduce them to the rest of the flock slowly, don’t just toss them in with the other birds. We keep our chicks in a big cage in the coop for a few weeks so they can all get used to each other slowly. Hope this helps!
Caitlin says
A drake can potentially kill your hens by trying to mate with them. Weird, but true.
Emma says
Im really struggling at the moment
I have one isa brown called nugget who keeps pecking my two silkes relentlessly.
I’ve re-build the coop to ensure they have more space, and included more purches.
I employed your previous techniques for over 3 weeks but the minute they are together nugget pecks them quite violently.
Nugget is currently in another coop at the moment but she looks really sad, not sure what to do.
Would really love your advise.
Cheers. X
Meredith Skyer says
Hi Emma,
There could be a lot of things going on here. Sometimes bantams and standard hens just can’t get along, the standards will relentlessly pick on the bantams and there’s nothing to be done. We raise bantams and standards together, but they were also raised together from day one so we didn’t have to deal with integration. Also, it can take several weeks for new hens to get used to each other and establish a new pecking order. There WILL be violence toward then new arrivals no matter what, as the established hens need to show they’re at the top. If you can, let all the hens free range together, but keep them separated when not free ranging. This will allow them to get used to each other at a distance, and the new hens can get away if they need to. I would also put lots of places within the coop and run for the newbies to escape if they need to. Things like upturned wooden boxes with a doorway, tall roosts to fly up to, hanging boxes on the walls, these will all give your hens the space they need. It’s also possible that the coop is too small for the number of hens you have and the overcrowding is stressing the birds out. It’s also possible that Nugget is just a bully, and won’t ever stop pecking at the others. In that case you would need to either re-home her or have a second coop for her and hens that she does get along with. I hope you can solve it soon, it’s certainly a frustrating situation.
Rick says
I have a golden that is picking on other hens pulled feathers from some what should I do?
Franceska says
We 2 separate groups of chickens. One with 16 and are 18wks old. 2nd is only 4 and they are 16 wks old. Older ones have always been curious about younger ones and always been separated by smaller coop inside run. I let 2 of little ones in run this morning and it didn’t go well. I can’t just let older ones peck and do horrible damage to the younger ones. I can’t put all in larger coop as space and design won’t allow it. Any suggestions? I put 1 or 2 big ones in smaller coop to teach them to drink and scratch, older GC literally pecked GLW into the corner. Any advice?? Youngest 4 are nearly age to have layer feed. I want to move them to big coop by 18 weeks.
Susan Leining says
I feel great that we did just this with our last batch of chicks. We have a new batch in the “nursery” right now and plan on following the steps you have suggested. Knowing they worked with the last batch makes me confident that our birds of a feather will eventually flock together!
Katie says
Another way that has always worked really good is sneaking the new birds in at night when everyone is already roosting. Most of the time they wake up and don’t even realize there are new birds. Even when we introduced one little bantam we got from our meat chicken batch into the egg layers. Why do they give you one”exotic” bird when you get meat chickens. It seems kinda mean luckily we have layers to add her to that flock.
Meredith Skyer says
Yes we’ve done that too, it does work pretty well!
Shawn Hall says
These are our very first chicks! Some of our chicks didn’t make it through shipping. Our “replacement chicks” will arrive when our others are 6-weeks old. We had a large coop built with a 180 sq.ft. covered run. We are buying a small second coop to temporarily put in the run when their old enough. Will it be easier for them to adjust to each other?
Meredith Skyer says
Yes I would keep them separate until the replacement chicks get all their feathers in, then you can use these steps to introduce the two sets of chicks.
Mari says
I have 6 hens and a rooster all 7 weeks old that I’ve been trying to add to my little established flock of 5 hens and a mature rooster, all 2-3 years old. So far I’ve just kept the younger ones in a fenced off corner of the coop where everyone can see and hear each other– nobody seems particularly bothered by the others yet. My 2 biggest concerns are the roosters/ fighting (?), and I worry that the younger ones will run away or be chased away when I open the coop to let the older ones free range like they are accustomed to do. Any thoughts?
Rebecca says
I have two separate coops right now. One is for my grown hens and their rooster (they are a little over a year old and free range during the day.) The second coop is for the “babies” who are now 3 months old on a separate part of our property. The babies have been free ranging in the orchard since they were a month old. However, yesterday something killed and ate part of one of the babies. It was just heartbreaking for my daughter. But this makes me think they might be better off being integrated with the grown ones as they will have protection from predators by the rooster. Our coop is rather large but they babies are too big to be put into a cage in the coop at this point. Should I try putting them in at night with the others and see what happens or should I move their coop closer to the big coop and let them free range together? Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated. I’ve left work twice so far to check on the babies and they are quietly hiding in an irrigation ditch both times, they seem really scared after whatever happened yesterday.
Meredith Skyer says
If it’s possible to portion off part of the coop with chicken wire and keep the younger birds in there for awhile I would do that, it would allow the birds to be part of the same flock without opportunity for fights. If that’s not possible I would definitely start free ranging them together, and move the younger birds coop close to the older birds coop. A lot of people suggest putting them in together at night, but in our experience it doesn’t really help. The older birds will realize there’s new chickens in the coop in the morning and they will fight each other. It’s best to slowly integrate, and doing it while free ranging helps a lot.
Tammy says
I have 25 hens and a rooster and now I just picked up 25 new babies and the little ones are still in the broader but I have a spot all fenced off in the big coop and my newbies will go in there at 6 or 8 weeks for a while then everyone hopefully will free range together all day. Fingers crossed it all works.
Meredith Skyer says
I hope it does work! There will always be some scuffling as they form a new pecking order, but slow introductions are usually helpful to cut down on fights.
Krista says
I have 4 RIR hens and now 2 8 week old silkies. They are still so small. Should I start this process now or do I need to wait longer? I put their brooder against the coop for a day and the big girls were very vocal about it, lol. They are ready to get out of brooder though for sure…
Meredith says
I would wait if possible. You don’t want to introduce them fully until the chicks are big enough to defend themselves. If you have silkies they are bantam breeds and will stay much smaller than the rest of the flock. I would wait to put the whole flock together but if you can keep the chicks in the coop so they’re safe in an enclosed area but still able to see the rest of the flock, that would be a good move for now.
Kate says
We have one three-year-old hen that we have raised from a chick. She is the last of our old flock and we wanted to start a new flock and integrate with her. The coop we have right now will only hold four or five chickens comfortably. We got for baby chicks and a dog kennel to put beside the coop to help integrate them. However aweek and a half into the process some boxes got our checks in the middle of the night. No damage to the kennel, just feathers and a little blood. So I was puzzled as to what had done it, some veterans to chicken raising assured me it was foxes. And we do have those living behind our property. My question is I am now raising some more chickens to replace those we lost but I’m afraid to leave them out in the dog kennel at night for fear of the same thing happening. I want them to get Used to being with the other chicken 24/7. If I bring the checks in at night does that defeat the purpose? I just don’t wanna lose another batch to the foxes.
Meredith says
If it’s between bringing the chicks into the coop at night and them getting killed by foxes, definitely bring them in. If you put the chicks in the coop at night and be sure to put them back in the kennel before everyone wakes up for the day there shouldn’t be any fighting as they’ll all just be asleep the whole time.
Jen says
So, if I’m understanding this correctly, once my new chickens start getting feathers, we can put them inside our current chicken run (with four 2-year old birds) within a dog crate-sort of structure? Then follow as you suggested (keep them in crate for a few weeks, then let them free range together, and let them come and go freely from the crate?)
Meredith says
You’ll want to keep them under a heat lamp in a brooder until they’re fully feathered, so they have all their adult feathers and no fluff left. Then, yes you can move them to a dog crate in the coop and keep them there for a few weeks so they can all get used to each other. Usually by this point the chicks are 8-12 weeks old and close to the same size as the rest of the birds, then they can all meet each other. I would introduce them slowly at first, don’t just open the door to the crate and leave it open forever more, let them out to play and then close them back up at night or after a few hours if it looks like the birds aren’t getting along. As long as you keep an eye on them for the first few times they interact everything should be fine.
Nancy Brennan says
Thank you so much for the info. Our city dwelling grandaughter is keeping her small flock at our country house and had seven laying hens here. We hatched a single Americauna chick for her to add to her flock(the only one out of twelve eggs to survive) so “Freida” had been raised in the house being a pet until she was full grown and nearly old enough to lay. We followed your advice and kenneled here in the hen house during night time hours and brought her out during day time for a whole month-then let her loose in the hen house. There was a bit of a scuffle on occasion but nothing out of the ordinary. Freida now even roosts with the rest of the flock and has laid her first green egg. We will be afding ten more chickens to the main flock as soon as they ate full grown. Thank you so much for your advice.
Meredith says
You’re so welcome, I’m glad it worked out for you!~
Sheyanne says
If I keep the new chickens in a cage in my run where do I put them to sleep at night? Do I bring the dog crate into my garage?
Meredith says
You can bring it inside if that makes you feel more comfortable, but they can also just sleep in the crate inside the coop. You can put a small roost bar inside the cage to make them more comfortable.
Mayie Peace says
I separated chicks from their mothers 2 months ago but each time i introduce the chicks to the hens the nenspeck them seriously. Intrestingly some of these are tgeir mothers but dompletely forgot their chicks. What do i do to mix them. They are all locsl birds and free range
Meredith says
If they’ve been separated for months, then hen won’t accept the chicks as her own anymore, they need to stay together for her to be a good mom to them. The best way to mix them is to follow the instructions in this post, put a large cage inside the coop and put the chicks in the cage, let them get used to each other that way first, then either let them free range together for short periods of time, or let the chicks out of the cage but provide places for them to hide in the coop if they’re getting picked on.
Bry says
Hello-
I have integrated my new chicken to the existing flock. She seems to be integrating ok, still a little shy around the “mean girls”. She roosts, able to eat out of the main food dispenser, and drink. We aren’t sure if she has laid an egg yet, though. How long do you think it will take her to start laying eggs? She’s been with us for about 2 weeks.
Also, is it common for the other chickens to be a little stressed by the new chicken and slow egg production for a few days?
Thank you!
Meredith says
Hi Bry,
Yes it’s normal for it to take some time for the new bird and the existing birds in the flock to start getting along. It will probably be around a month or more before a new flock dynamic is established and things even out. I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t lay an egg until that time. She may be acting normal, but she’s certainly stressed after joining a new flock and trying to find her place in it. Give her some time and she’ll get more comfortable and start laying for you.
Renee says
Help! My Americana chicken, Little Mama is picking on my new Golden comets, Cocoa & Chanel, mainly Chanel. She has had a very stressful week. We lost our other Americana rooster, Red, which was Mama’s brother & mat. The neighborhood dogs got ahold of him. My babies were free-range until this last instance(this was the 3rd animal I’ve had killed bc of these dogs). We built a new coop & placed Little Mama in it & my new girls, Cocoa & Chanel. They all seemed to be getting along well when separated. Mama would hang out with them when we couldn’t find Red that horrific day. Now, Little Mama is picking, well I say bullying my Golden Comets. She is picking the feathers out of them. She won’t allow them to eat. She hems them up in the coop. Poor Chanel can’t even look at Little Mama. Cocoa won’t go into the coop. She is currently sleeping on the opening into the coop. Chanel is in the corner facing the wall & won’t look at Little Mama, but Little Mama is sitting on one of the wooden perches staring her down. Little Mama will lay her egg right under the door to the coop, just so she can control the door, which either traps them inside the coop or outside on the ledge, like Cocoa right now. I understand she is upset bc she lost Red, she lost her ability to be free ranged & is now in the coop with 2 new hens(11 weeks old). They are all close to the same size. Little Mama is about 2 years old. I don’t know what to do. Little Mama has never been alone. She has always had Red. We bought chicks for another reason, but ended up keeping 3 little chicks(Mama, Red & Roadrunner). Roadrunner was killed by the neighborhood dogs, then my turkey was killed & I believe, it was this past Monday when Red & Little Mama were attacked by the dogs. They didn’t mess with Coco & Chanel who were in a small kennel apart from Little Mama & Red while we were trying to integrate them. Little Mama chases them, comes up behind them. They are constantly being bullied & at this moment have no escape except for me. My husband is telling about building a divider in the coop, but I don’t think that’s going to work. I think we should have waited a couple days longer before putting them together. I check on my 3 babies all throughout the day. I’ve chopped up apples to give them to help. I bought a little treat thingie that has raisins, mealworms, peanuts etc in it. I am trying to create a distraction, you know, something else for Little Mama to put her focus on, other than me new girls. I don’t know what else to do. Should I just let nature take its course? Should I lock my new girls back into the small dog crate for a few days or weeks & try to go at this another way? Plz email me, text me, call me( I will give you all my contact information
Meredith says
Hi there,
I’m sorry to hear you’re having trouble with bullying. This is for sure caused by too much stress in a short amount of time. The predator attack was stressor one, then losing a flock mate was stressor two, then introducing new flock members was stressor three. Your Little Mama can’t handle all that stress at once. You’ll need to separate your new chickens, cocoa and chanel from Little Mama for the time being. She needs to get back to normal after the stress of losing her friend. I know she may seem like she needs new friends right now, but what she needs is some time alone. When she’s back to behaving normally you can try re-introducing the new birds to her. There WILL be some fighting between her and the new birds no matter what, because they need to establish a new flock dynamic. This is normal. But I think you tried to introduce the new birds to her too quickly when she was already very stressed and anxious from the predator attack. When you reintroduce the chickens do it outside, free ranging, so the new birds have a way to escape her, and there are lots of distractions for them all by being outside. I hope this helps. I know how hard it can be to watch the animals you love attacking each other.
Annette says
Hello, I’m looking for advice as to whether I should be concerned or not about my chickens. I have 3 Black Sex Links that I got when they were 3-4 months old and have had them for a year and a half. A couple months ago I got 2 Swedish Flower Hens – one is a yr old and the other 6 mos old – and kept them separate for 3 weeks from the sex links but they could kind of see other across the yard. On week 4 I set up a wire fence with roosting bars for the new chickens inside the main pen. The chickens immediately started to fight through the fence when I put the new ones in. I thought after a week or so they would get used to each other. After a week I placed the 2 new ones in the coop at night so they would all come out together in the morning. Well, the next morning the sex links just attacked the new ones as they came out of the coop. I stood guard and intervened when it got bad. Here it is about a month later and the sex links still don’t like the new ones. Constantly pecking and chasing the new ones. Occasionally there is some peace but it doesn’t last long. Going in to roost at night is terrible. The sex links keep trying to peck at the new ones on the roosting bars and one of the new ones starts pecking at the other new one. The smallest of the 2 new ones seems to get it the worst since the sex links and the new one she came with try to peck at her. Today the smaller new one (she’s not that much smaller than the rest) was trying to lay an egg and 2 of the sex links kept pecking her out of the coop. I took the worse aggressor of the 3 sex links and put her in a dog crate in my mudroom to try and cool her off for a few days. Not sure if I’m doing the right thing? How much pecking is too much pecking and is this situation normal? I’m regretting getting the 2 new ones and am starting to dislike my sex links which is not a good feeling. I would have never got new chickens had I known how difficult it is to introduce. But of course I love the new ones and hate to return them but I hate to see them getting pecked at all the time and worried one will get hurt. So frustrated!! Any help is appreciated, thank you.
Meredith says
Hi there,
I understand your worry. It’s totally normal for there to be pecking and fighting for quite some time, especially if you have a small flock. They had a tight knit little group and that was suddenly disrupted with the arrival of two newbies. The best thing you can do is let them figure it out on their own. They won’t fight forever, but if you keep intervening, they will never be able to establish a new pecking order. I know it’s hard, but let them do their thing without standing guard, they need time to adjust to the change. One thing that really helps is to add more roosts, nesting boxes, and hiding places in the coop. That way the newbies can have some areas of respite, and areas that they aren’t encroaching on the older hens space.
Linda says
I have found that this article is spot on! I lost 9 hens out of 11 a few months ago due to a dog attack. I was forced to start over with babies to add to my 2 existing girls. I kept them in the coop, safely separated of course, from the day I brought them home. I followed this introduction plan and it was relatively stress free. Of course there was the usual chasing and squabbles but nothing to cause me to separate. It just takes hard work and time. You can’t expect to buy new chicks and just throw them together. If you are looking for advice, follow these steps and you and your feathered babies should be just fine!
Amanda says
Meredith, thanks so much for this helpful article. We had a small flock of 3 hens that are now over 4 years old and stopped laying. We lost one 6 months ago, she died of unknown natural causes in the coop, and then a second one was killed by a raccoon 2 nights ago when the remaining two were mistakenly locked out of the coopt 🙁 The last hen, Amelia, heroically escaped but I worry she will be lonely and afraid now. We wont be able to get new chicks for at least a month, so a friend offered to let us adopt 1-2 adults from him now – also older birds. Do you agree Amelia would benefit from companionship even if the intro might be stressful? Does your advice above differ if it is a one-on-one intro? And finally if we do this, is it OK to do just 1 instead of 2? I’d rather get more chics in spring than have 3 older gals again, if I can avoid it. Thanks so much!
Meredith says
Hi there! It’s perfectly fine to add just one chicken instead of two, as long as your hen has a friend she’ll be happy. I think it’s best to introduce new friends as soon as possible after a loss, in my opinion the disturbance of new chickens would be less than the depression and fear that would come with living alone.
Don says
Thank you very much for this helpful, and artfully presented, guide.
AnnMarie says
I have two flocks I just integrated. The oldest flock is 11 chickens, 3 are roosters and range in age from 12-17 weeks, mixed Batams and standard. The second group is 10 chicks 6-7’weeks old standard chicks.Many of the 7 week olds are the same size as the oldest Batams.I followed your in instructions with the coop in the coop for a week, gave the smallest chicks a place to hide/ escape when needed. Definitely some pecking and running, but overall doing well. The flocks stay separated most of the day still, we have a fairly large run with lots of roosts.At night the oldest group goes up into the henhouse. The younger flock does not yet, just huddle on the roost on the run floor still and I wait until after dark and pop them up in the henhouse with the others. They all come down together in the morning. How do I get the second flock to go up at dusk with the older flock?
Jennifer says
Hi , I have a coop with Orpington,barred rock, barnvelder, and 3 unknown Bantu type that moved in from being abandoned by neighbors, 1 silky rooster, I’m ordering a blue Plymouth rock and speckled sussex chick, to integrate in the spring, will the young pullets, do ok with rooster, I’ve always used the same technique of cage in the run until close in size , but I’ve never introduced with a rooster, my little silky was for sure a girl, but his crowing says different! He is 7 mo now but is in charge of the “big” girls, and I’m also considering a salmon faverolle to add chick with the other 2, I order in Spring, any advice would be appreciated, thank you